When it comes to the future, senior figures in local government tend to be optimistic – even at the very worst of times. But the starting point for a conversation with the director of the Leadership Centre, Joe Simpson, about post-COVID uncertainty feels a little more bleak.

‘We used to talk about the four horsemen of the apocalypse – war, famine, pestilence and death,' he begins. ‘What we've got now is four massive challenges simultaneously.